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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.05 16:31:00 -
[1]
Makes sense to me. At the minimum an elected CSM delegate needs to be able to keep to the basic rules of conduct on the forums and in game so they can set an example to the playerbase.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.06 14:25:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
I'm unhappy with some appearances of the CSM on the forums, but I have mixed feelings with being booted from the CSM for a forum ban. I'm more for an investigation if that happens, and the CCP people behind the CSM scolding the CSM in violation, and deciding on action, rather than a forum ban resulting in removal 100% of the time.
Well I'd agree there could certainly be some kind of behind the scenes discussion going on - but ultimately if you are getting forum banned under the new enlightened forum regime we've got now then something is going wrong Ank. People do get sent emails from the moderators telling them when they've had posts removed/moved/whatnot and why and if they keep insulting other players then its really their own fault.
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After all, if this goes through, people can be provoked by alts or throwaway accounts on purpose, and it will likely result in a lot more trolling and harrassment of CSM on the forums to get them to lose their temper and get themselves banned.
Well to be quite honest, I very much doubt any CSM present or future is going to get as badly trolled and insulted and flamed and stalked than I've been this summer and at the end of it all I've still got my posting rights and managed to avoid breaking forum rules handling CSM business in the midst of some extremely ugly discussions. I've had literally hundreds of forum alts trolling me and the ultimate answer is simply to install CAOD-cleaner and block entire organizations and alt posters if you really can't handle these people with an even temper on Eve online.
I've found it hugely liberating to be able to say what I really think on SHC from time to time mind you :)
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.06 21:42:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Farrqua
Is any one else sensing a witch hunt is a foot? Getting support to take to CCP to go after someone currently on the CSM? I thought there was some kind of movement already to oust Jade for some things that everyone had heart burn about,had a lot of support and CCP said "nope."
Well if this is a last poke in the eye of whoever it is on the board..I am going to need popcorn for this.
Originally by: Farrqua
Is any one else sensing a witch hunt is a foot? Getting support to take to CCP to go after someone currently on the CSM? I thought there was some kind of movement already to oust Jade for some things that everyone had heart burn about,had a lot of support and CCP said "nope."
Well if this is a last poke in the eye of whoever it is on the board..I am going to need popcorn for this.
As far as I know nobody on the CSM is forum banned at the moment. I don't think its so much a witch hunt as just trying to set up some solid rules of conduct for the people going into a second term and being joined by the new intake.
As for people going after me - bah, that was just trolling. Nobody sensible took that to heart - certainly not ccp or the csm.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.06 21:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Farrqua
For myself, I just can't seem to conect the ingame stuff to the forum stuff. Forum stuff your really not logged in. Whilst in game I see and feel a completley different manner a play and behavior. That when I get my role on so to speak.
Bit different for a CSM delegate though, you do need to use the forums to communicate with the players and you can't afford to use them lightly - ultimately its a medium for discussion and has to be treated with respect.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 14:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Goumindong
Jade has had a full permanent forum ban in the past and was allowed to participate.
Full permanent bans ain't what they used to be
Yes, it was harder to get a full permanent ban back then than it was today and the penalties that accrue leading up to said ban are more severe now.
You are very much mistaken there Goumindong. Back in the day it used to be possible to get a permanent forum ban for 10 signature size offenses if you were unlucky enough (or any combination of minor transgressions) the problem was that the forum rules made absolutely no distinction between minor issues and serious ones and simply handed out then perma-ban stick at a count of 10.
The new forum regime has several important improvements over the last one:
Firstly, most minor "offenses" don't actually involve warnings - where threads can be cleaned up with deleted bits, locks or moves those don't obligate the moderators to give warnings. Example being obvious ooc material on the IGS forum - the moderators remove the offending material now - but don't have to give warnings while they do it (though they do give public direction to the people making this mistake.
Secondly, as far as I know its not possible to actually get a permanent forum ban in the new regime without posting something outrageous on the eve-forums - and this means seriously offensive material. I think we can all agree that somebody posting ****ography or extremely nasty images deserves what they get.
There was a reason that scores of perfectly good posters got permanent forum bans back in the day and that was that all offenses were considered "equal" and it was a 10 strikes and you're out regime. Fortunately thats all changed, we've now got a professional moderation crew - and the moderators are using a lot more discretion in using surgery on bad threads and posts rather than a ubiquitous ban-stick and things are definitely better from the ccp end at least.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.09 12:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
Well I'm glad this is a contentious topic :) Always more interesting debate. Darius' point about the CSM not having influence over the Forum Mods is correct AFAIK, but that doesn't stop the CSM being given the ability to take action on forum bannings.
The interesting risk (again by Darius) is that a majority council could effectively "war-report" a fellow-CSM member they wanted kicked out (think thread-nought with reports); At the risk being forum banned themselves for repeatedly reporting posts that didn't deserve it. However that would be a neutral action, as the "war-reporting" majority wouldn't vote one of their own out of the Council.
On the otherhand, the "war-reporting" CSM would also be unable to communicate (or) do further reports.
The only way I can think to counter that is to simply remove a banned persons right to vote, and let alternates step up. As Alternates are sequential, this can also be gamed. Ideas?
I think its probably fair enough that a temp banned CSM delegate gets temp-replaced with an alternate according to the previously established tally of voting. So if X delegate got a 1 week ban he or she would be replaced as a voting member by the next alternate for the duration of the ban.
If it was a permaban then they'd obviously need to be permanently replaced.
Now the problem is that the moderators might not like to share the status of the ban upon another player (for privacy reasons and such) - so the CSM would need some way of ensuring it was correctly kept up to date on the ban status of its members. Perhaps it could be added to the CSM signup docs that the delegates agree to do their best to avoid forum disciplinary action and give their permission for the CSM officers to be informed about potential forum bans and suchlike.
To the few dozen identical posters in the thread above I'd say don't personalize this - its going to be something that does come up in future CSMs and the delegates need a way to resolve the situation.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.09 14:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 09/10/2008 14:04:53
The assembly hall is not an excuse for flaming and personal attacks and I'd like to ask the Goonswarm posters in this thread to stop it immediately. It should be possible to debate and even disagree without the need to be openly abusive towards other Eve players.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.09 14:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
W
Knowing you Jade, I would bet everything I own that this is some sort of personally motivated bullsht, to get something you want, than about any real concern.
Point is you don't know me Eddz. You don't know anybody who hasn't taken the time or inclination to get to know you in return. This is a computer game with thousands of players - there is a limit to your understanding of other participants and assuming you know everything there is to know about another player always leads to misunderstanding and bad feelings.
And this is why its always a bad idea to personalize these assembly hall issues.
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Which CSM members are currently banned? Which of them is the person you dont like?
As far as I know (or have been informed as CSM chair) - currently no CSM delegates are forum banned.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.09 14:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
:edit: Asking Goons not to post is pretty silly. They have just as much of a right to voice their opinion as anyone else, including you.
I didn't ask them not to post, I asked them not to post abuse and personal attacks.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.09 15:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
If they pretty up their attacks and veil them in [ISSUE] tags will it be considered more appropriate?
I honestly don't care what they do as long as they stop using assembly hall as a venue for personal attacks and flaming. Discuss the pros and cons of the issue in the thread - or post other issue threads, but its never appropriate to use this AH for flaming and personal attacks against eve players.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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